Hello, Yakov. What city did you come from?
- From Kiev.

Please tell me where you were on April 26, 1986, on the day of the Chernobyl disaster?
- On the evening of the 27th or 26th, I cannot remember exactly, but everybody was called to work.

What did they tell you?
- Nothing detailed. But all of the drivers were taught in the Soviet Union that if something like this happened - then they had to evacuate all of the people.

Did you live in Kiev at the time?
- Yes.

What time was it when this happened?
- At 10 or around 11 in the evening. Those who were at home and those who were working, already coming from their apartment, were called to work. But those who were already coming from shifts - we worked every other day - they weren't allowed to go home. They told them to go to Chernobyl. They gave them a direction.

Did they explain to you what happened?
- No.

You just had to go?
- Yes, to go and to drive people out of there.

Why?
- Nobody knew why.

Did you go right away?
- Yes.

So they told you around 11, and what time did you leave?
- Around that time.

Was this your regular time to work?
- No, no, wait. I didn't go on that day, because I came late - the buses already left. I came a little late. If I had been earlier I would have went.

So, when did you leave?
- In about 3 or 4 days, I went in about a week - to drive the workers.

This was at the beginning of May?
- Yes.

Did you already know what happened?
- Yes, already.

When did you find out what happened?
- When the guys came back and told me.

How did they tell you about it? What did they say? Remember that moment, when did you first find out what really happened?
- Based on their talks, it was a very long line toward Chernobyl. Buses and trucks were
running. All transportation able to transport the people was directed to Chernobyl. It was a very long line. As I remember, they said that it was prohibited get out of the cars.

Why?
- Because the air was contaminated, but people didn't know this. The line of buses and trucks was moving very slowly. In some places, we even stood for 5-10 minutes. So, people went out on to the street (fruit trees grew along the streets) and they took the apples and pears, that were growing on the trees. And those who ate got sick and everybody who even went outside. It was better not to go outside and to keep the doors tightly shut.

How about on a private matter, if you had to go to the bathroom?
- Well, on a private matter - then that's a different question. But nobody knew what was going on. If they knew, maybe they wouldn't go out, do you understand?

Why couldn't you go outside? How did they explain to you what happened?
- That the air and everything around Chernobyl was contaminated with radiation.

Contaminated with what? Where did this radiation come from?
- That there was an explosion - of a nuclear power plant.

So your colleagues came back and told you how they came?
- Yes they told me.

Were you living in Kiev at the time?
- Yes.

What was happening in Kiev?
- In Kiev nobody knew anything.

Did you also not know anything?
- I didn't know until my colleagues came back.

The accident happened on the 26th. When did your colleagues come back?
- Around the 1st of May.

And you found out only on the 1st?
- Yes.

When you found out what happened, what was the first thought that came to your mind?
- The thing is that nobody knew what that was. I mean the simple people didn't know. You couldn't see it, and you couldn't smell it.

So it was calm?
- Yes, calm - regular air, everything is clean - but the consequences reminded about it.

What kind of consequences?
- The consequences were fatal.

Which ones? Among your friends?
- We had a lot of sick guys, then they got into the hospital afterwards. Not the same day, but some time after.

How about you? You found out on May 1st and went the same day?
- No I didn't go on the same day. I can't remember exactly, but sometime in May I went to drive the workers to Chernobyl.

Were they the workers who cleaned the contaminated land?
- Yes, they worked for a week, and at the end of the week they would be replaced by someone else.

Did they tell you what they were cleaning?
- No. Nobody said anything. Nobody asked. They didn't talk to anyone.

Were these people from the army?
- No, citizens. And citizens from all over because we drove them to the train station.

How many were there?
- Thirty people.

What train station did you drive them to?
- Kiev Train Station. And that's where we picked them up. We waited for them there. They would come from all over at a certain time. We drove up to them, they got on, and we left.

Did they know why they were going there?
- Well, of course. They agreed to it.

How do you know that they knew the reason?
- Because I heard, they were talking with each other.

What were they saying?
- Well, how much money each made.

Did they know that you were driving them to clean up Chernobyl?
- Yes.

Did they know that this was connected to the radioactive accident?
- Of course. Of course they knew, because they went there by free will. And in Kiev it was announced - who wanted to go, could go.

And how often did you drive these workers?
- Two times, to Pripyat (a small town located a short distance, 4 km, or 2.5 miles from the nuclear power reactor - A.K.)

So you went there only twice?
- Yes, twice.
And where were you after?
- After that I didn't go anymore.

How many hours did you spend in Chernobyl, how many days?
- I came there for about an hour each time. The arrivals were told to go eat in the dining room. And the previous workers would go back to Kiev.

Were you allowed to go out of the bus?
- There everybody went outside. In that area.

And how was the fruit? Could you eat it off the trees?
- No we didn't eat the fruit. People ate in the dining room. And people were walking without masks, but everyone was in work clothes, in body suits.

Where were you after that?
- I was in Kiev. And then I got sick. - thyroid.

When did you feel this?
- When? Probably, in about half a year or around August.

Were you living in Kiev all this time?
- Yes, on the Geroyev Dnepra Street, in Obolon' (neighborhood in Kiev. - A.K.).

Oh, in the Obolon'. I know this place very well. A very beautiful place, on the shore of the Dnepr river. I was in Obolon' on April 26, 1986, on the Geroyev Dnepra street. And you also lived there. And how did you feel the thyroid?
- I felt it myself. My hands were shaking. I had a severe weakness. I went to the doctor and he told me to go to an endocrinologist. The endocrinologist told me that I had a very fast pulse. They put me into the hospital to reduce my pulse. Then they checked me, said
that I had an enlarged thyroid, and that I had to undergo surgery.

When did they perform the surgery?
- Somewhere around September or October of the same year.

What was happening to you afterwards?
- Nothing much - they did the surgery, I stayed home for a while and then went back to work.

Did you feel the result of the accident anymore?
- Of course, not only me - everybody felt it And all the buses were washed and checked with a special tool for radiation.

How long was this happening?
- A long time, couple of months. We washed them all the time. And some of them were unwashable - those were thrown away.

And when did this end?
- Probably in the next year.

So, the whole year you were also washing the buses?
- Yes, yes.

And what happened to the thrown away buses if they weren't even washable?
- I don't even know.

How did you wash them?
- With water. We tried mainly under the wheels where it was most contaminated.

Did you wash them yourself?
- The washers and me. Everybody was washing.

Was there any protection?
- We were wearing special rubber suits and gas masks.

Where were the buses from - Chernobyl or Kiev?
- Yes, those which went to Chernobyl to transport the clean up crew back and fourth.

What other consequences of the Chernobyl accident did you notice?
- Well, my colleague Gregory went there a lot of times. And I remember that he felt very bad. I don't know how he is now. He went there many times - he was well paid. People went there because it was well paid.

How much did they pay?
- Workers who went there for a week were paid a thousand rubles per week (it was 10-20 times more than the average salary at that time. - A.K.).

Were you also paid for these trips?
- No, I just got my salary. It was those who spent a week there, they got paid a lot. But some drivers also spent a week there.

Did anybody offer you to go there for a week?
- Yes, but I refused because I was already sick with thyroid. Nobody was forced to go. Mostly the volunteers went there.

How were you after the surgery in Kiev?
- I was fine.

Did you feel anything, any Chernobyl pressure?
- No.

Any worries?
- No.
When did you forget about this?
- About Chernobyl?

Yes.
- Well, when everything was calm.

When did everything calm down?
- Probably around 1989, 1988.

So everything was already calm?
- Yes.

How about food, swimming, the Dnieper River, water?
- People were saying that the water was contaminated, and that it's better not to swim.

Did you swim?
- No. Not in the Dnieper. My wife and I went to swim in the Black Sea.

Why didn't you swim in the Dnieper?
- Because people said that you can't.

And where did you go on vacation before 1986?
- To Desna (a tributary of the Dnieper, located north of Kiev, between Kiev and Chernobyl. - A.K..), a good place.

What was the village called?
- Rozhni.

Did you still go there after '86?
- No.

Did you miss it?
- Yes, of course. A good place, beautiful water - very healthy.

When was the last time you swam in this water?
- Well, it's hard to say. Definitely before '86.

And in '86?
- No. The summer began and everybody already knew so nobody went there.

So you said goodbye to the Desna?
- Yes. Now there's almost nothing left of it, but a little creek. No water - dried out. I think about 5-7 meters wide.

And also to the Dnieper?
- Of course.

When did you come here?
- In 1991.

Why did you decide to come here?
- My mother lives here, already 23 years. I visited here two times.

When was the first time?
- The first time in '85, and the second in '87 or '88, sometime around that. I was here two times.

Were your impressions from '85 and '88 different?
- No, the same.

How about your feelings and your intentions - to move here or not?
- Yes, this was my decision.
When?
- In 1988.

Why?
- Because it was harder to live. Everything was getting worse, from my point of view.
And my kids - I thought "what's next?"

But, what was your most important reason to leave?
- Just in general. And Chernobyl was involved a little.

Were you afraid of Chernobyl? What if Chernobyl wasn't there, if there was no accident?
- Well, I don't know. Well, of course this also had an effect, a lot of consequences. People were already talking on the news about the disease and all.

But if there was no accident, would you have left Kiev?
- Probably, yes.

And in '85 why did you, if you've already been there…
- I came as a guest.

And in '87 you were also a guest?
- Yes, already with my wife. The first time I went without her.

And now, you decided to show it to your wife?
- To show my wife - so that she would approve it.

Okay. And by the way, how did your wife react to the consequences of the Chernobyl accident?
- Well, everybody was worried, they thought "How would it be, what would be next?" You know the saying: First you can't drink, then you can't eat.
What can't you do?
- In Kiev, for example food - this you couldn't - some fruit and specific vegetables.

Which ones?
- Well, mushrooms, for example. My wife knows more; she went to the market.

Did you already have kids?
- Yes, of course - two.

How old were they?
- Let me remember… My oldest is 25 now; this was 13 years ago. So, she was 12. And the youngest was 3-4 years old.

Where were they at that time?
- When this happened, the oldest went to our relatives to Stavropol (a town in Russia. - A.K.). And so did the younger one.

Why did they leave?
- We were worried about them.

When did you start worrying?
- In May. When all this began, when everybody found out.

What began? I don't know.
- Authorities began to drive out their people. The train station was packed, and airports were packed. It felt as if something had happened, but nobody knew anything.

On what date did this occur?
- Right away, 27th-28th.

Was it easy for you to send your kids away?
- Yes, because we had relatives.

The train station and airports weren't packed anymore?
- Well, they were, but they still let children on. And they were sending to Moscow, Leningrad - to the north farther away.

When did they return to Kiev?
- My daughter was there for about 2-3 months.

And your wife decided to visit the United States with you in 1987. Why did she decide to go with you? The first time you went by yourself.
- The first time I went to visit my mother and to see what it's like here. I liked it and decided to bring my wife, so that she would like it too.

Why so soon - in 87, but not in a couple of years?
- That was in a couple of years.

You're right.
- Wait a minute. We were here in '88, definitely, because in '91 we moved here, three years later.

And you went to show her the possible place of your future life here?
- Yes. We didn't think about it yet, but already wanted it.

Did you think about moving from Kiev to any other place, not to America?
- No.

Never?
- No.

Once again, how do you think your life would have turned out if there were no Chernobyl accident? Where would you live now?
- I don't even think about that.

Think now. Let's make an experiment.
- You know what, everything just passed over and everything about Chernobyl calmed down…

Do you ever remember Chernobyl?
- No.

Never?
- No.

How about your friends and relatives? Did anybody get hurt?
- No. From ours nobody got hurt.

Only some of your colleagues?
- Colleagues, those who voluntarily worked there, for the money.

How are they now?
- I don't even know.

When was the last time you went to Kiev?
- The last time was in '93.

What were your impressions?
- Everything changed, in a bad way. And still, it's not the people's fault. The people are nice, very kind, friendly.

And how about now, what does the Chernobyl plant look like? Does it have any affect on the life there?
- Who knows the truth? Looks as if they extinguished this reactor, but there are still consequences. As the media says.

How did your kids react to this? Did they ask you "why are we leaving Kiev?"
- No.

The oldest one was 12 years old.
- She didn't know anything. She heard some things, but didn't understand what it was.

Did you explain "why?"
- No, we sent her as if on vacation.

Well. And later, did you children ever ask?
- No, they did not. They did not know anything. And nobody told them anything.

It's good that you forgot all this.
- Yes.213

Did your body also forget? How is your thyroid now?
- It's okay.

Where do you work now?
- I am a driver. I have always worked as a driver. I worked on a bus. And now I am a taxi driver.

Let's return to the beginning of our conversation. So, for the first time you found out about the accident at 11 o'clock in the evening. Is this correct?
- No, later - probably around 12. I came in around 12 and everyone who was called already left. I thought that about 20 buses were needed and they already left.
Did you know the reason?
- No, nobody knew.

And the first ones who told you were the guys who went there?
- Yes.

Did your supervisors tell you anything?
- No, the supervisors didn't say anything. The drivers talked to each other.

Around May 1st you found out about this. How about between April 26th and May 1st,
did you know anything?
- No.

And during this time, your friends were driving people out of there?
- Yes.

And nobody knew anything?
- Maybe people who worked there knew more. I don't know all the details. I didn't even ask. I know that from our auto base, there were a lot who worked there. And they worked there for a long time, again for the money. A lot of people said that this would be bad for them. But nobody listened. They didn't feel anything. And later, they start to feel it.

How?
- They began to feel bad and wound up in the hospital. Then nobody went there anymore. Yes, and they didn't even want to go. Then they got disabilities.

Did a lot of your friends get disabilities?
- Yes. I remember that from our base there were about 4-5 people. They didn't want to work anymore.

Do you remember the reasons for these disabilities?
- One had leukemia or something in this area. Leukemia, yes, I remember one older man - he changed a lot.

In '93, when you visited Kiev, did you meet any of them?
- I was at work.

Did you see any of your driver friends who went to Chernobyl at that time?
- No, not those who went to Chernobyl.

Not even one?
- No.

Where did they disappear?
- I don't know. I asked. That one died. That one is sick. Different answers. The administration was still the same as it was before. But there were a lot of new people.

The administration is the same, but the drivers that went to Chernobyl are gone. About how many drivers went to Chernobyl?
- It's hard to say. From every base - we had 4 bases - about 10 people.

So, about 40 people?
- Somewhere around that, yes.

And you didn't meet even one of them in '93?
- No. I was there only 2 times, for about an hour each. It's hard for me to walk. They welcomed me very nicely.

How can you explain that you didn't see even one of the 40 people?
- Well, everybody is on duty. If I come there, there are only the repair department and the administration there at the time - nobody else. If I left, say, at around 5-6 in the morning and came back at around 9-11 in the evening.

Did you meet any other drivers?
- I went to the repair department - there were a couple of people there. But in general, everyone was on duty.

Did you ask where the others were? Were you interested?
- I was interested about my partner, who I worked with. They said that he is very sick.

What kind of disease?
- I didn't ask. I was told he is very ill. I think this is because of the same reason.

I see. Are you glad that you are here now?
- Yes. Yes.

Is your family glad? Are your kids?
- Yes. At first it was a little hard, but now they're used to it.

Do you miss Kiev?
- A little bit. It's my home, my friends.

Do you write them?
- No. I call them. My wife's parents and sister are there.

Do they complain about Chernobyl?
- They don't write about Chernobyl. Just it is bad to live there in general, without money. People work, but they don't get paid. It's very hard. We help how we can.

When is the next time you're going to go to Kiev?
- Well when we get passports and citizenship, my wife and I will go.

You're not citizens yet?
- No.

When will you get your citizenship?
- The winter, I think, if everything will be okay.

So, the first travel after you get your citizenship will be to Kiev?
- Yes. My wife really wants to go, so would I - my mother is ill.

Are you going to go with your kids?
- My older daughter wants to go. My son-in-law already agrees.

That's great. I wish you the best in getting your citizenship as soon as possible. And that your trip to Kiev will be very nice. Thank you very much for the interview.

Copyright © 2000 Aleksandr Kronik